Re: [tlug] disk configuration: drive mounting

["Jim O'Connell" <oconnell@example.com>]

On Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:23:42 +0900 (JST)
Christopher SEKIYA <wileyc@example.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Bingo.  If you want to use Microsoft-style management tools, use Microsoft.  If you
> want to use UNIX, use it in the proper manner.
<snip>

What the hell is the "Proper Manner"?  If I use Webmin, I am just using a well-polished perl script to write the file.  If it was just a command line perl script, would that be less evil?  Is Perl too newbie-ish? Should I be using a shell script if I want to automate things a bit?  I know, I know, I should do everything in vi on a dumb terminal over a 1200 baud modem.  That way, Linux stays *pure*...

Where the hell did all of this snobbishness come from? 

The people who wrote Webmin (and every other tool like it, ) had at least some desire to make things a bit easier for people. Why not use their tools and give them feedback?  Why not make Linux a little bit less of a Pain In The Ass(tm)?  

At my office, I am easing Linux into a formerly Microsoft-only network.  One of the support people has the task of adding new users' mail accounts.  I set her up with a webmin account to do this - sure, she could just ssh in as root and type 'adduser', but guess what?  She's a lot less intimidated to go to her bookmarked web page and use Webmin's Japanese-localized interface to select the options.  Once she learned that, it was a no-brainer to get her administering our Majordomo lists.  Starting and stopping the proxy server?  A click away.  To me, this stuff is a Good Thing, because it means that I get one less phone call on a Saturday night.

{As a side benefit, another coworker asked to borrow my distro cds to install it at home.  Should I have told him to download Slackware onto floppies over a slow modem like a real man?  He doesn't really know what he's doing yet, but he's interested, at least.  Maybe he'll start coming to the meetings and one day add something valuable to the community. (Or maybe he'll read threads like this one and go back to Windows in disgust.)}  

So far, Webmin has performed beautifully.  I added the caveat to my last mail to try and avoid a bit of this vitriol.  I didn't.  So I'm just going to say it:  I use Webmin and I like it. 
I also use vi - I love it.  I use it to edit just about any text that I need to edit.  I also know how to add lines to /etc/fstab and have it work.  I just don't want to have to try to explain how to do it to my boss on a Sunday afternoon in my pathetic Japanese on my keitai from the changing room at an onsen in Hakone.  (This happened 3 weeks ago.)  

I thought part of the point of a LUG is to increase the number of people using Linux.  On the TLUG web page, it says "All are welcome."  Is that short for "All are welcome to get blasted for wanting this stuff to be more usable"?  

Every time someone installs Linux on their PC, are they expected to suddenly have 10 years of command-line experience, just so they can browse the web or write a letter?  Or are they somehow 'not worthy' of their operating system, because the partition they just wiped was Windows ME?  

If that's the case, instead of offering *information* to new Linux users, why don't we start offering a lot of *misinformation* ?  Scare even more of the 'Unwashed Masses' back to their world of Windows and AOL...  That will teach `em.

I could go on, but what's the point?

Jim


 


On Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:23:42 +0900 (JST)
Christopher SEKIYA <wileyc@example.com> wrote:

> > Most end users want point and click solutions to configuration
> > issues, and at this stage of the development of linux, I think
> > they're entitled.
> 
> The hell they are.  Linux/*BSD developers don't owe the great unwashed masses
> anything, unless the masses are paying said developers (_not_ distribution packagers)
> to cater to their whim.
> 
> > The impression I am getting from the users is that I shouldn't
> > even be asking the question, and I should be happy with editing
> > text files.
> 
> Bingo.  If you want to use Microsoft-style management tools, use Microsoft.  If you
> want to use UNIX, use it in the proper manner.
> 
> > Are there any projects out there to bring hardware and networking
> > configurations under a coordinated program of some kind?
> 
> Browse on freshmeat, but do not be surprised if your query results in no hits.
> 
> -- Chris
> 
> 
> 
>