Re: [tlug] Seeking Information... (Used vs. New)

["Lyle (Hiroshi) Saxon" <ronfaxon@example.com>]

Godwin Stewart wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:47:34 +0900, "Lyle (Hiroshi) Saxon"
> <ronfaxon@example.com> wrote:

> > I was referring to the new ones being soldered in, not the old ones
> > being taken out, and more to the point, I was referring to damaging the
> > circuit board, not the (new) capacitors.

> If any damage is going to occur, it's while removing the old capacitorsm
> not while soldering the new ones in place. Pulling on a lead that hasn't
> been sufficiently heated can cause a track to adhere to it and get ripped
> off. Worse still, it can cause a copper sleeve that connects the top layer
> to the underside of the circuit board and to all the intermediary layers
> INSIDE the circuit board to be pulled out. If that happens, you might as
> well purchase a new, sorry, used mobo anyway.

Thanks for the comment.  I had forgotten about the multi-layer design of
computer boards!  The boards I worked on before were single-layer audio
amplifier boards.

> > Don't bend over backwards to be nasty Jim, what point does it serve?

> I don't think he's being nasty. We're both trying to make the point that
> there is no answer to your question.

Of course there's an answer!  Maybe no one on the list has it, but there
is an answer!  We're not talking about an unknown speculative issue, but
a down-to-earth problem with a simple part that shouldn't explode after
just a few years in use!  There is a difference between "There is no
answer" and "We don't have the answer".  For example, the tiny bit of
info I've provided could conceivably save someone the headache of using
a Dimension-C.  I am definitely not calling for a boycott of all Dell
products, just warning about that one model (which had a short
production run - there is no current Dimension-C).

As for the nasty part... it sure felt nasty.  If it wasn't intended to
be nasty, then I apologize for getting up-in-arms.  Anyway - there *is*
an answer - at least in pieces.  I don't expect to ever get the entire
jigsaw puzzle put in order, but a few groups of pieces put in the right
place can help understand what the situation really is and possibly help
steer a used computer buyer in a safer direction.

Incidentally, two of the worst computers I've ever owned were bought new 
- an IBM Aptiva (150MHz/2GB/32MB) and those blasted Dimension-C's (one 
565MHz and one 700MHz)!  I still have one - bought very cheaply from 
Dell as they were shutting down that line.  The capacitors are all blue, 
instead of the black ones that were defective in the other "C", so I'm 
hoping they are either of better quality from the same parts 
manufacturer or from a different manufacturer.  (Other problems with the 
Dimension-C model were lack of ventilation and defective CPU fans with 
very high levels of vibration - so high that they shook the pins of the 
CPU to the point where some of them stopped conducting.  The Dell fix 
for this was to take out and re-seat the CPU to get the machine working 
again, and to send a repair person out a week later to replace the 
defective CPU fan.  Also it was a major headache to change the hard 
drive, etc.)

The best computers I've owned were all used - from a Dell laptop to the 
older type of Dell OptiPlex.  A couple of Hitachi computers I bought and 
set up for friends have been working flawlessly for years.  That Hitachi 
model was only sold directly to corporations, and it seems to have been 
better built than a lot of the junk offered to regular consumers.  This 
aspect of the used computer market is something to think about.  If the 
corporate boxes are intended to be heavy duty from the beginning and not 
to win a price war, it could be that the best bet of all is buy used....

Still seeking information,

Lyle