Re: [tlug] Re: Post my article on tlug.jp?

["Josh Glover" <jmglov@example.com>]

On 28/07/07, Jonathan Byrne <jonathan@example.com> wrote:

> We need to attach some definition to "long." When I (and others) say
> it's too long, we mean it's long like a a paper that someone wrote in
> six pages, then found out the teacher required an eight page paper so we
> found ways of inflating the world count without adding any actual
> content.

I did not read it that way, so obviously, it is subjective. Please
take pains to present your opinions as just that: opinions, and not
Holy Writ.

Dave, please define the "target audience" that you have mentioned a
few times so we can all be clear on what *you* intend this article to
accomplish.

> WRT The Cathedral and the Bizarre, I'm sure that many (if not all) of
> ERS's drafts were longer than the final copy that he showed to the
> world. I'm also sure that it had a number of editors other than ERS
> himself, and they doubtless left a lot of words on the cutting room
> floor.

Yes. O'Reilly has some good editors.

Working with an editor is quite humbling; you basically have to either
trust that they know how to do their job or not. If the latter, find a
new editor or self-publish. Just know that your work will be the
poorer for it, unless your editor really was an idiot.

Jonathan, if I want my spam filtered, I'm going to retain the services
of your company, and where our opinions differ, yours win, because I
trust you guys to know how to do your job. Otherwise, I would not have
hired you.

But Dave hired no-one on this list. According to his account, it
sounds like he has had some peer editing, and is satisfied with the
outcome.

> >Frankly, I'm a little disappointed in you lot.
>
> For having high standards of writing? C'mon, Josh, if the language was C
> instead of English, would you still be saying this?

Yes.

Sometimes, I have constraints or intentions that require a certain
approach in C. If I need something deployed in finite time, it will
not implement its own object system, with message-passing and
exceptions. It will simply make a bunch of library and system calls
and check the results. Ugly but functional.

If I submit this code for a review, and the reviewer does not
understand my constraints or aim, even after I explain them more than
once, I'm going to get pissed off.

There are standards and there are standards, mate.

For that matter, did Yamagata-san have his translation of CatB edited?
Did he have to, or was it enough that he communicated ESR's ideas to a
Japanese audience?

> We may not be addressing the matter with kid gloves on, but this is a LUG, not high
> tea.

Yeah, but remember that writing, like code, can come with personal
baggage, so please at least apply tact, if not kid gloves (I am not
really talking to you here, JB, just making a general statement).

Anyway, I take my tea with lots of milk and one lump if I'm feeling
sweet, none otherwise. ;)

> >[1] http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/retrogaminghks/
>
> This is actually a nice example of what I expect. It says a lot in a
> small space. It is not wordy and does not meander.

Yes, as I said, the O'R editors know their jobs and do them well.
Which is not to say that I did not miss some of the rough diamonds
that were left on the cutting room floor. :)

> If the essay were
> written like that, no one would be having this conversation. We'd like
> to help it be like that, though.

Offering to help is one thing, being insistent in the face of a polite
"no thanks" is quite another.

-- 
Cheers,
Josh