Re: [tlug] OT: interesting NY times article:High-Tech Japanese, Running Out of Engineers

[Shin MICHIMUKO <smitimko@example.com>]

Hi,

Sorry for responding slowly.

I was just trying to say 1) still many Japanese people welcome the 
foreigners, 2) Confucious was used as a tool to suppress the different 
cultures.

From: CL <az.4tlug@example.com>
Sent: 2008年05月20日 20:20:26

> Japan follows the Neo-Confucian (Daoxue) school of thought epitomized by 
> Wang Yangming (Wang Shouren, Ou shoujin, Yangming-zi, Yangming Xiansheng 
> [1472-1529]).  The Wang Yangming school was the means by which the 
> Chinese (Han) Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) sought to eradicate the effects 
> of the Yuan Dynasty (1278-1368) which had been imposed by the Mongols 
> under the Great Khan.  It was the last time China was ruled by Chinese 
> until 1948.  In Japan, Neo-Confucianism was brought in by Oda Nobunaga 
> (although some say it was Uesugi Kenshin) and the Matsudaira family (of 
> which the best known sub-family were the Tokugawa) to eradicate the free 
> thinking of the late Muromachi Period and the decline of the Ashikaga.

Wow, you are so good at history of Confucius in Japan. So it should be 
clear for you that Zhu Xi and Yanming's style of Confucius were used for 
Samurai education, right? Zhu Xi was studied by Tokugawa dynasty and 
assumed to be the basic and formal attitude of Edo era.

I just wanted to make sure that Confucius and its following study like 
Zhu Xi was used in Japan for more than thousand years in total 
officially. Many basic phrases and way of thinking are still used in 
current Japanese cultures. And one of the basic concept of those 
Confucius is "to support your bosses and ancestors". Sometimes, I am 
feeling the same difficulties you may have experienced when I talk with 
Japanese elites people who doesn't care about other than their bosses.

And, of course, some more details should be studied by Philosophers. I 
have some books which mentioned about the effect of Confucius in Japan, 
but it is not widely accepted among the academic studies.

> "Confucianism" is something the Chinese 
> governments made up to keep the people in place and docile.

Correct. And the Japanese situation is similar, as long as we talk about 
the logic of "Confucius". The different situation in Japan is that Japan 
didn't clearly suppress Confucius in its history.

> > I don't think Chinese government is always good, since they are 
> > excluding the religeous groups sometimes, but at least, they are 
> > familiar with the negative aspects of Confucius than Japan.
>
> The teachings of Gong are once again permitted and, in some places, 
> encouraged in China.  The Gong family temple in Shandong has been restored.

Yes, I know. It is like Japanese buddhism situation (Buddhism was 
suppressed once by Nobunaga Oda, but Buddhism was a part of Edo 
government). However, Japanese confucius was not suppressed, and further 
more, Samurai-ism (which is based on the Confucius philosophy) is still 
sometimes recommended (or supported) by elites and academic groups in Japan.

> There are a lot of nuthatch fundamentalist Protestant splinter groups in 
> Korea who all together claim about 65% of the Korean population, but 
> marriages and funerals are still mostly Buddhist or the local animist 
> religion.  Like so many other places in North Asia reports of 
> "Christianity" are a very thin veneer over reality and the numbers are 
> suspect.  And, as the husband of a Japanese Catholic from a family that 
> can trace their belief back to Sengoku-jidai, I hear the same thing from 
> Japanese priests all the time.

Oh you are? Interesting. My family can be traced until Edo jiday by 
Catholic church of Nagasaki. Anyway, I've heard that 30% of Koreans are 
Christians, so 65% is little too high as an impression. But I just 
wanted to say that the Japanese situation is so tough for other cultures 
than other countries.

In Japan, everybody (100%) were registered as a member of Buddhist 
temples until 1871. Buddhist is now under 100%, but it is not a matter 
because many people are leaving away from religions and the problem here 
is that easiness to accept the different cultures and different 
religions in Japan.

Japan is still tough for foreiners compared to China or Korea, I think. 
And I believe that Japan should improve such situation.

> The "samurai style" has nothing to do with China.  Samurai are a product 
> of the Gandara Dynasty of modern-day Afghanistan of around the sixth or 
> seventh century A.D. and the thought appears to have come to Japan via 
> present-day Fujian (China) or Hue (Vietnam) through Dazaifu.  You may 
> also find another theory that says it came to Japan across the Gobi and 
> entered via one of the ancient Korean proto-states.  The only problem is 
> that there is no historical record of a samurai-style of activity in 
> North China or Korea, but there are traces among the historical records 
> of the Cham (early [pre-Dai-ren] Thai and Javanese Khmer).

Yeah, Samurai-style could be tracked down like you wrote here. However, 
the important thing is that the Samurai-style way of thinking is still 
supported by many people in Japan and it was strengthened by Confucius 
(including Zhuzi xue == "朱子学") for few hundreds years. And the effect 
of it is not yet clearly stated  nor became common study. It is so 
called "cultural gap" or "cultural differences" in Japan now, but 
"Confucius" and its history in Japan may tell you *how* it is different 
as a hint.

Anyway, I hope the situation will be improved in the future. Japan 
should learn a lot from other countries and still needs to accept more 
people from other countries to understand each other.

Regards,
---Shin.
--
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  Shin MICHIMUKO <smitimko@example.com> http://www.peanuts.gr.jp/
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