Re: [tlug] Making programming easier... or something like that

[Attila Kinali <attila@example.com>]

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:26:23 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@example.com> wrote:

> Attila Kinali writes:
> 
>  > Would someone lend me a hand and give me some pointers to stuff
>  > i could read about programming as a mental work and how people
>  > learn it?
> 
> Start with The Mythical Man-Month, of course.  Get the 20th
> Anniversary Edition, which includes Brooks' thoughts about "what a
> long, strange trip it's been" in additional chapters, as well as the
> classic "No Silver Bullet".

It's on my list of books to buy.. and has been for years (literaly ^^')

 
> Next, type "python -m this" at any command prompt.

I know this. But this rather looks like an a posteriori, experience
based guidance on how to write better code. It doesn't give any
understanding why it is better or how I even can recognize better code.
The topic of making writing better code simpler is not tackled at all.


> Then read the Beautiful Stuff (Code, Tests, etc) series.

I've read Beautiful Code, Beautiful Architecture, Masterminds of Programming
and a few others are stil waiting to be read. But for most of them the
above applies as well: They explain after the fact what they have done
and turned out to be a good idea. Not why it is a good idea or how
i can design a system that makes me produce good ideas.

 
> Starting at any Agile site should point you to some of what you want.
> I've got some AI-cum-CAI books around (from back when people weren't
> entirely clear that computers-that-learn and computers-that-teach are
> two different things), I'll see if I can dig some up.  History of the
> Logo programming language, maybe SmallTalk and HyperCard.

I've heard about HyperCard, but i'm too young to ever have seen it.

I've heard also a lot about SmallTalk, but never had the chance
to have a look at it. Interestingly, it always seems to pop up
in discussions about language design.

> There's a recent literature on "design patterns" in programming
> (sprouted from design patterns for architecture AIUI) which I admit I
> haven't read.  But people who talk about them clearly are interested
> in the same questions you are.

Can you give me a few pointers here? My google skills didnt turn up
anything related.. or at least nothing i think is related.
 
>  > And how does the structure of programming languages
>  > simplify the task of programming and learning of programming?
> 
> Kiboze python-ideas for "Guido van Rossum", "Nick Coghlan", and "Greg
> Ewing".  There's a reason why GvR is BDFL, and it's not "just 'cause
> he was there are the beginning."
> 
> There's a current thread on python-ideas about async programming where
> you can watch some great language designers in action.  You can see
> the interaction between correct semantics and beautiful syntax as it
> develops.  Aside from the three protagonists above, "Glyph Lefkowitz"
> is well worth reading.  You could also check their blogs.


I've subscribed there. but it will take some time until i've read it.
Thanks! And damn you that you made me subscribe to the mailinglist
of the arch enemy of a perl programmer! ;-)

 
> Speaking of Zen, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" is a
> classic in the field of "how to people learn to do jobs well".  I
> didn't like Pirsig's later stuff anywhere near as much, though.

Also one of the books on my list to buy.. I should finally buy and read it.
^^;


> As far as your more specific questions, I'll come back to those
> later.  :-)

That's one of my big problems. I don't know what i'm asking.
I have the feeling that something is amis in the world of programming,
that many people are somehow working on it, but i cannot point my
finger on it... Even though i the feeling it's always just all around me.

This fuzzy feeling and the inability to explain things is one of
the reasons why i started learning psychology. But it will take a
few years until i have learned enough psychology to put things into
perspective and can draw conclusions. Until the, i try to learn as
much as i can from different angles.


Thanks so far!

			Attila Kinali
-- 
There is no secret ingredient
         -- Po, Kung Fu Panda