tlug: ISDN - The search continues....

["Andrew S. Howell" <andy@example.com>]

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tlug note from "Andrew S. Howell" <andy@example.com>
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I've been looking for an ISDN router. Below is a summary of what I have 
found so far. Please note that when I started this quest a little more 
than a week ago, I knew almost nothing out ISDN. Now I know little more,
but not as much as I should! This is somewhere between %100 accurate and 
%100 inacruate, probably closer to the later! I made up the catagories in
the table below as I went along; I'm sure some of them may not make any 
sense. There are still lots of gaps. If I get time, I'll fill them 
later. 

Also, keep in mind that I am only interested in running TCP/IP over ISDN. 
I didn't take note of IPX and AppleTalk support...

Please let me know of any errors, or other info you may come across. 

Anyway here it is, warts and all...

Andy

		MN128-SOHO	Mucho	NetGear			NetVehicle	
			/DSU	-ST	RT210	Netopia			
						630	640/440			
Features	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	
									
10Base-T ports	3	3	2	1	2	2	1	
Analog Lines	2	2	0	1	0	0	0	
Analog Pre-empt	IO	IO	N	IO	?	?	N	
AUI port	N	N	N	N	1	1	?	
Call Discon	N	N	N	?	?	?	?	
Compression	N	N	S	S	AS	AS	S	
Config		BS	BS	FT	S	NST	NST	B	
Con. Profiles	?	?	20	?	4	16	3	
DHCP/BOOTP	Y	Y	Y	?	Y	Y	32	
DNS		Y	Y	Y	?	?	?	Y
DSU		N	Y	N	N	N	N	N		
Dynamic IP	Y	Y	Y	?	Y	Y	?	
Firmware Upgrd	Y	Y	?	Y	Y	Y	?	
MP,MP+, BACP	B	B	M	M	M	M	M	
NAT (users)	Y	Y	+	?	12	Unlim	Y	
OCN		Y	Y	?	?	?	?	Y	
PIAFS		Y	Y	?	?	?	?	Y
Proxy ARP	?	?	?	?	?	?	Y	
RADIUS		?	?	?	?	?	?	?	
Routing		?	?	RS	R1	RS	RS	?	
Security	?	?	BCIP	CIP	BCFP	BCFP	CP	
Serial (DTE)	1	1	1*	0	?	?	?	
Syslog		N	N	N	?	?	?	?		
TCP Header Comp	Y	?	Y	?	?	?	Y	
Trace Route	N	N	Y	?	?	?	?	
									
List Price	59,000	69,000	88,000	?	?	?	59,000	
Street Prc Yen	?	?	69,000	57,800	?	?	?	
US Price	?	?	?	?	?	?	?	

		Cisco			Ascend		Yamaha	Alied
					50	75	RT-102i	Telesis
		761     765     1003				Congo
Features	8       9       10	11	12	13	14
		                       
10Base-T ports	1       1	1	1	1	1	1
Analog Lines	0       2	0	0	2	0	0
Analog Pre-empt	N       IO	N	IO	IO	N	N
AUI port	1       1	N	1	1	N	
Call Discon	?       Y	N	N	N	N
Compression	S(opt)  S(opt)	U	A	A	S	U
Config		BFNST   BFNST	NST	BNST	BNST	?	FNST
Con. Profiles	?       ?	?	8	8	?	10
DHCP		?       AR	?	?	?	Y	Y
DNS		?       ?	?	?	?	?
DSU		N       N	N	N	N	N	N
Dynamic IP	?       ?	?	?	?	Y	Y
Firmware Upgrd	Y       Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	
MP,MP+, BACP	M       M	M	+	+	M
NAT (users)	?       ?	(opt)	?	?	Y	Y
OCN		?       ?	?	?	?	Y	Y
PIAFS		?       ?	?	?	?	?
Proxy ARP	?	?	?	?	?	Y
RADIUS		?       ?	?	?	?	Y
Routing		R2S     R2S	ER2S	R	R	?	S
Security	BCIFP   BCIFP	BCIFP	ABCFIP	ABCFIP	?	BCIP
Serial (DTE)	?       ?	1	1	1	?	1
Syslog		?       ?	?	Y	Y	?	?
TCP Header Comp	?       ?	Y	Y	Y	?	Y
Trace Route	?       ?       ?	?	?
		                       
List Price	75,800	96,800	?	Open	Open	158,000	79,000
Street Prc Yen	?       ?       128,000	124,999	138,000	118,000
US Price	440.00  545.00  1152.00	?	$620

Analog Pre-empt - Analog port pre-emption
	I = Inbound
	O = Outbound
	U = Unspecified, in or out

Call Discon - Manual Call disconnect switch

Compression
	A = Ascend LZS
	S = Stac LZS
	U = Yes, but unspecified
Configuration
	B = Browser
	F = FTP (or tftp)
	N = SNMP
	S = Serial
	T = Telnet

Dynamic IP - Dynamic IP address support from ISP

DHCP	- Dynamic Host Control Protocol
	Number indicate number of workstations supported
	A = Agent
	R = Relay

DNS	Domain Name Service
	Y = Supports setting of DNS server via DHCP

MP,MP+, BACP	Multilink PPP, MP+, Bandwidth Alocation Protocol
	M = MP
	+ = MP+
	B = BACP

NAT - Network Address Translation - RFC 1631

PIAFS	PHS Internet Access Forum Stanard

Routing Protocols
	E  = E-IGRP
	R  = RIP
	R1 = RIP-1
	R2 = RIP-2
	S  = Static

RADIUS	Remote Authentication Dial In User Service
	http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/732/111/555_pp.htm
	ftp://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc2138.txt

Security
	A = Authenication protocol, possibly 3rd party, such as Security Dynamics and Enigima Logic 
	B = Call-back
	C = CHAP
	F = Firewall filtering
	I = Caller ID
	P = PAP
	
TCP Header Comp	- Supports VJ Header compression

1,2)	NTT MN128-SOHO	http://www.sphere.ad.jp/te-tokyo/soho_topics.htm
	Manual		http://www.sphere.ad.jp/te-tokyo/manual/index.htm

	There does not seem to be any support for compression!

3)	Mucho-ST	http://www.furukawa.co.jp/network/mucho/mucho.html
	serial port is shared with 10Base-T port on the ST model
	The Mucho PS has only 1 10base-T port, list 69,000, street 55,000

4)	NetGear RT210	http://netgear.baynetworks.com/ds_rt200s/index.html
	Uses network port as RS232c for configuration
	
	The web page contained very little detail. 

5,6)	Farllon Netopia	http://www.farallon.com/product/netopia/rouglanc.html
			http://www.netopia.com/
	Japan		http://www.matrix.co.jp/www/NewProducts/NewProd.html#3-Netopia630

	Netopia 640 PC/Windows Networks 
        Netopia 440 PC/Macintosh Networks - includes PhoneNet support
	What is 430 from DIT ?

	Web site includes lots of notes for connecting to other ISDN harware

7)	Fujitsu NetVehicle http://www.fujitsu.co.jp/hypertext/Products/telcom/NV/
	Anti-Telhodai mode :) prevent TA from automatically cutting the line, so you 
	can keep your connection when telahodia's come on line.

8-10)	Cisco		http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/728/760/c760_pa.htm
	7xx - Devices 4 or 1500 with optional software
	1003 - Type of Compress not specified.
	1003 has lots of options. Not sure of prices.	
	The cisco routers that support IOS, incl the 1003, have many features, which
	seem to vary with platform, that I had a difficult time determining which specific
	features were available.
	
11,12)	Ascend Pipeline 50,75	http://www.ascend.com/products/p75/p75index.html
	Ascend seems to have the best security features with their add-on 
	Ascend Secure Access Firewall.

	Ascend has yet reponded to email! 

13)	Yamaha RT-102i	http://www.rtpro.yamaha.co.jp/index.html
	Manuals quite detailed. Many examples.

14)	Allied Telisis		http://www.allied-telesis.co.jp/products/cat72.html
	Congo - List price goes up to 129,000 on 97 Aug 31.

Non-routing TAs, not considered. These have a serial port to attach to a single PC. 

	Alexon ALEX-128/HG	http://www.alexon.co.jp
	Motorola BitSURFER-Pro	http://www.nextcom.co.jp/
	NTT INS"meito"V-3DSU
	
General Notes

	STAC seems to be the standard compression. 

Useful URLs
	NAT etc			http://www.farallon.com/product/netopia/dialup/smartipwhite.html
	Dan Kegel's ISDN page	http://alumni.caltech.edu/~dank/isdn/
	NTT ISDN info		http://jw.nttam.com/ST/ISDN/isdn_intro.html
	NTT OCN page		http://www.ocn.ne.jp/
	Network design		http://www.cisco.com/univercd/data/doc/cintrnet/75816.htm
	ISDN			http://www.cisco.com/univercd/data/doc/cintrnet/ito/55780.htm
	PIAFS etc		http://www.yo.rim.or.jp/~araki/menu.htm
				http://www.ascend.co.jp/product/max4000/piafsfaq.html
	MP,MP+,BACP		http://www.ascend.com/techdocs/mp+faq.html
				http://www.ascend.com/techdocs/bacp_mp+.html


The following is a recap of help I got from the TLUG (tlug@example.com)
mailing list. Thanks everyone.

>From Paul Gampe

If your ISP is using Ascend MAX400X for their POPs then you are likely to
get very good throughput by having Ascend h/w on either end of the link. 
Their compression s/w is good.  Otherwise we have been very impressed with
the Farallon Netopia router as well.  


Jim Tittsler

The "Mucho" router from Furukawa seems to be the cheapest of the current
lot.  Platform was selling it last weekend for between 50,000 and 60,000.
http://www.furukawa.co.jp/network/

"Stephen P. Casmar" <scasmar@example.com>

A Livingston ISDN router which would sit on your
LAN and make the ISDN connection for you. It's a fairly simple
solution and you can even buy Firewall version for greater security.
Or a full blown Cisco 2501 router but that might be overkill. 

	http://www.dit.co.jp/catalog/portmaster/or_isdn/or_isdn.html

"A.Tomita,Jr." <Alberto@example.com>

I had thought about buying a P75 in the US and changing the settings
for use with the Japanese ISDN (as the firmware is the same, I thought
that changing some jumpers might be enough), but neither Ascend US nor
Ascend Japan were much cooperative and they didn't confirm if it could
be possible.

But if you go for a P25, I saw at the DOS/V Paradise web page that they 
have the single-user version on sale for 56,000 yens. 

gaijin@example.com (John Little)

   PlatHome have them on the shelf for 140,000. Still not cheap, but
   still a fair discount from Laox. I know that the company here
   gets them even cheaper... let me ask who the supplier is on Monday.


Jim Tittsler <jwt@example.com>

>On Wednesday, NTT announced a new router, the MN128-SOHO which has a list
>price of Y59,800 (Y69,800 with DSU).  It is scheduled to ship June 13th.
>http://www.sphere.ad.jp/te-tokyo/soho_topics.htm
>
>I spent a little time in Akihabara this afternoon looking at ISDN routers.
>Good places to look for routers/DSUs seem to be Plat'home and Soft Create.
>
>The cheapest one appears to be the Fujitsu NetVehicle with a street
>price of Y46,800.  It will handle NAT for 2 machines, and act as a
>DHCP server for up to 16.
>http://www.fujitsu.co.jp/hypertext/Products/telecom/NV/
>
>Plat'home had the MuchoST on sale last weekend for Y52,000.  Unfortunately
>it seems to be back to its standard street price of Y69,000 today.  This
>appears to have one of the best software stacks available.
>http://www.furukawa.co.jp/network/
>
>BayNetworks has introduced a low cost family of products under the
>NetGear label.  The RT210 is Y59,000 in a cute little housing.  It
>even is available with an English manual.  It does not do NAT or DHCP.
>Unfortunately, the salesman couldn't tell me for certain if it was
>okay for use with OCN.
>http://netgear.baynetworks.com/ds_rt200s/index.html
>
>There are quite a number of offerings in the 75,000 to 90,000 range
>including SII, Ascend, Cisco, Buffalo, and NTT.
>
>Cisco has the 761 (Y75,800) and 765 (Y96,800), the latter of which
>includes two analog ports.
>http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/728/700/c700_ds.htm
>
>Ascend has a huge range of routers with a variety of options starting
>with the Ascend 25PX for about 87,000.
>
>Farallon's Netopia series also seems like a possibility.
>http://www.farallon.com/product/netopia/rouglanc.html


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