Re: tlug: Re: Japanese input

[Taro Yamamoto <tyamamot@example.com>]

Karl-Max Wagner wrote:
> However, as it turns out, the development normally hadn't a lot
> to do with the specific writing system - as long as it allowed
> expressing words and sentences correctly - which all writing
> systems currently in use do.

	Yes, they do, but in different ways. For example, you mentioned the
words "specific writing system" above. To literally translate it into
Japanese, one possible translation should be "TOKUTEI NO MOJI TAIKEI".
Only the auxiliary word "NO" is genuine Japanese. I cannot find any
other good candidates that are completely in Japanese. It is clear that
most of our vocabulary today is composed of Chinese words or words
influenced by Chinese expressions.

> > inherent agglutinating nature of the Japanese language looks to make the
> > mixed use of kana and kanji work very well, and this may be the
> > background of the fact that the Japanese language has successfully
> > expanded its vocabularies by applying Chinese words (in Chinese kanji
> > characters) especially to abstract concepts.
> Sure ? How many foreign words do you think we adopted in German?
> We have them from all directions: Latin, Greek, Italian, French,
> English, Japanese, Chinese, Russian etc. etc.

	How important are non-Latin-originated/influenced words in German?
	In Japan, practically speaking, it is impossible to utter a sentence
without a word originated in China. Chinese words occupy most important
elements of Japanese sentences.
	Trying to translate the first sentence in the Preface of "The AWK
Programming Language" by Aho, Kernighan and Weinberger, I can say
"KEISANKI NO RIYOUSHA WA TANJYUN DE KIKAITEKI NA DEETA SHORI NI OOKUNO
JIKAN O TSUIYASU". Most of the key elements of the sentence are Chinese
words or words derived from Chinese expressions. Clearly, Chinese and
Japnaese are different in many ways. Many of the above transliaterated
words can more efficiently and easily expressed in Kanji rather than
phonetic and syllabic characters. So, the kanji has been selected
naturally.

> >       1. Conflict words: different words sharing one and the same sound.
> We have lots of them in German, too. Not much of a problem.
> >       2. Confusion between elements of a sentence: it will be hard to
> > distinguish independent words and auxiliary words. This will diminish
> > readability, anyway.
> This is a problem in pretty much all languages. It is minor,
> however.

	If it is minor or major cannot be decided arbitrarily. However minor it
is, if kanji works better, it should be chosen, as it was chosen by the
history naturally.

> >       3. 2. may make it necessary to introduce word spaces into Japanese, but
> > it will not be in good harmony with the agglutinating nature of
> > Japanese, and it will lead to unnecessarily redundant use of spaces and
> German is rather agglutinating, too. The solution is simple:
> separate words have spaces between them. Aggltinated words
> don't.

	As auxiliary words usually work to semantically join independent words,
separating independent words naturally separates auxiliary words also,
as proved in my roma-ji transliteration above. Some of the spaces will
be meaningless and redundant, because they are not needed at all if
switching of kanji and kana characters are correctly done. It will more
or less damage the natural flow and continuity of reading and writing,
and influence the rhythms expected in ordinary Japanese. Changes in our
language are possible and also inevitable. But artificial changes
require to be well rationalized and justified, not just by a single
utilitarian factor.

> > kana characters. This may also be a minus factor for readability and
> > efficiency of writing and reading.
> Actually it would improve readability. I always found the lack
> of spaces in Japanese text a bit confusing. Well, you get kinda
> used to it: but having them would be a definite plus.

	I agree with the merit of using spaces in Japanese. It may be a good
suggestion to improve Japanese orthography.
	But it cannot be anything that justifies abolition of kanji.
	Why don't we use kanji AND spaces, if spaces are so effective?

> Or was it just that technology became a lot better in getting
> along with this ? This in combination of human inertia could
> explain it as well ( and probably more realistically.... ).

	Yes, you may be right. I can agree with your point.
	However, the human inertia only in the sense does not necessarily make
all human spiritual activities aneamic, even when such activities are
utilizing the language and writing system, part of which can be more or
less inert.

> able to handle Kanji, etc., etc., etc..... ). This is a real
> PROBLEM. Back in the DOS days the Japanese DOS was always at
> least one year behind: Linux is no different. It appears to me
> that free programmers in Japan use up all their time getting the
> relevant stuff kanjified.

	It's true. But the world whose culture, literature, and language
activities deeply related to our current writing system is the world our
technologies need to serve (in text processing in particular).
Simplicity or ease of implementing text processing routines does not
guarantee the depth, wealth and subtlety in writing that we have
obtained through the use of kanji and kana characters and the Japanese
language for centuries.

> Let's face it: being constantly put at a technical disadvantage
> mostly means having a handicap against the competition. This is
> deadly in todays highly competitive environment.

	Even if there are disadvantages in the small technical field of
computer software, this does not mean any total disadvantage. If the
disadvantages had been so grave and serious, we would have remained
uncivilized. Computer engineering is a field of engineering that may
have interrelationships with various differet cultural issues and
activities, but it is impossible for computer engineering to totally
cover the vast fields of the culture and to substitute it. Our culture
encompasses us all, but we can not encompass the entire culture.

Taro Yamamoto
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