tlug: The alleged `Old guard` and Chris`s very valid points.

[tjhaslam <tjhaslam@example.com>]

It`s my personal hope that Chris won`t unsubscribe, but he should do
whatever he thinks is best.  If he does unsubscribe, it will be one less
reason for me to be on the list--because my chances of learning stuff about
Linux will greatly decrease.  So probably  I`ll follow Chris out the
virtual door, as it were.

As the person who started this `old guard` bit, I have to say that it was
meant both as a joke and as a mark of respect.   Speaking only for myself,
I greatly value Chris`s skills and contributions.  

As for Chris`s two main points:

 (1) Yes, the list should primarily be about technical issues related to
using and developing Linux.  When I joined the list, that`s why.  When I
started quarrelling primarily with Stephen Turnbull, it was because it
seemed to me that he and others were offering very strong opinions on what
were not strictly/only technical issues.  My point was not to offend
people, or even `educate` them.  My point was rather than some of these
concerns--how and why people use computers--had business and even
`cultural` aspects.  But I wish to take this opportunity to apologize for
any offense I`ve given.  As for the De Hoog/Karl Max exchange, I missed
that.  I don`t follow everything.  Karl Max is an amazingly knowledgeable
guy on a huge range of issues.  He`s truly astounding, quite frankly.
However, some of his social commentary strikes me the wrong way, but I have
every reason to believe he`s a truly decent and courteous guy--as well as
_extremely_ helpful.  At any rate, he--along with Chris, and even
ST--certainly commands my respect.

(2) Yes,  _in part_.  The people who are new to Linux simply have to make a
commitment to learning it.  Rather than complaining about the obvious:
**Linux is not M$ Windows, Linux is not MAC.**  Fine: People who want MAC
or M$ Windows should use MAC or M$ Windows.  Outside of some hypesters in
the Industry media, NO ONE in the LINUX Community as been offering LINUX as
the solution to everyone`s computing needs/problems.  The LINUX community
and the greater Open Source Community can _NOT_  be expected to cash checks
that other people have written on their behalf.   In other words, to the
people like _myself_  who are new to Linux, nobody *promised* _us_ anything.

At some point, you have to decide that Linux is either worth your time and
trouble--or not.  If it`s worth it, you learn it.  If it`s not, then it
won`t help you or anyone else to display ignorance and arrogance on the
TLUG mailing list--even if this in reply to a different kind of ignorance
and arrogance. 

Installing a copy of Linux might make you a Linux-user.  But to become a
member of the Linux community did--and still should--require something
more.  And Chris, IMHO, has every right to feel and say so.  

Best to all,
TJH









---------------------------------------------------------------
Next Nomikai: 20 November, 19:30 Tengu TokyoEkiMae 03-3275-3691
Next Meeting: 12 December, 12:30 Tokyo Station Yaesu central gate
---------------------------------------------------------------
Sponsor: PHT, makers of TurboLinux http://www.pht.co.jp