tlug: A message to the "Old Guard" - was "HTML again"

[Marcus Metzler <mocm@example.com>]

Dave Gutteridge writes:
 > Well, I suppose Chris here won't be really interested in reading this
 > response or any subsequent follow ups, but for everyone else, i felt it
 > worth to make a statement about his feelings that TLUG and Linux in general
 > is being swamped by people with a "gimme gimme" attitude.
I don`t think it is swamp with them. On the other hand, it is also the 
way people ask for something that may irritate Chris. 

 > I can't speak for others, but i know that I AM interested in how my machine
 > works, but being interested and being ABLE to do something about it, and
 > having the TIME to write my own code are seperate things. My work is as a
I guess most of the people on the list have some interest in learning
how things work and I don`t think you are required to
contribute beyond your ability or time limits. 

 > computer animator. The software is detail intensive and time consuming. At
 > the end of the day, i don't have much time to learn to many intricacies
 > (did i spell that right?) of how my new OS works. I would love to be able
 > to write code and develop new apps, and in fact i'm halfway through my
 > "teach yourself Java in 21 Days" book now. Serious programmers may laugh,
 > but i'm doing what i can, because i'm interested. I'm also interested in
 > the new Java OS coming out. And XML. And making my own web page, and
 > learning Japanese, and so on... 
I think that is just what Linux is about. That you have a tool you can 
work with and especially learn from. It may be true that you can do
some things quicker and easier with MS programs, but there is no way
you can learn a lot about the inner workings of those programs or the OS in
windoze. With Linux you can and after a while you may even be able to
contribute something. The problem is that some people are so used to
getting the programs they need that they forget that they also have to 
pay for them. In Linux you mostly don`t pay so you really don`t have
the right to complain if something doesn`t work, unless you know how
to do it better and fix it. 
If you want to complain, maybe you should ask the software companies
to develope the program you like for Linux. Although, I guess there
are some Linux programmers who don`t like the idea of commercial
software for Linux. 

 > But my own personal time issues aren't really at issue, though i think
 > probably most people can relate - I haven't met the person who claimed to
 > have "too much time".
That`s true.

 > level, i get "flamed" a bit for not checking the "man pages". Well, just in
 > case some of you have forgotten what it's like to be a newbie at something,
 > those pages are cryptic, not well cross referenced, and don't hold all the
 > answers to the mysteries of the universe.
Well, when you are used to something you don`t see the problems others 
might have with things that seam sooo easy to yourself. I think it is
really hard to explain things without direct feedback, like you have
to do when writing man pages.

 > Then I discovered TLUG. And the mailing list, and i found that when I asked
 > a simple question, like how to get to my floppy drive, not only did i get
 > the information i needed, i was also given a few tips and pointers on
 > related information which ensured that i didn't have to ask the next
 > question which was on my lips. Give me a human response over a man page any
 > day.
Sure, that is much easier, although sometimes people don`t even try to 
read man pages or README files and start complaining about things that 
are well documented. I have some experience with that and sometimes
you just answer certain this kind of questions with RTFM instead of a
proper response.

 > Back to the main: It was this "Old Guard" that Chris speaks of which kept
 > telling me in the past that Linux is better than windows in so many ways.
 > They sit around mocking NT ("Neandrethal Technology") and Win98 (Heard the
 > one comparing it to Princess Diana? Crashes spectacularly...). Okay, okay,
 > i'm sold. I'm here. But now you tell me i have to be a programmer in order
 > to use it? I was actually quite proud of learning how to install, configure
 > and run my Apache server, and how to install a Java virtual machine. But
 > that isn't good enough. Now if i want an HTML editor, i have to program the
 > app from scratch? You simply can't deny that Linux does not have as many
 > commercially available apps as Windows. That's just a function of the
 > market place. But that doesn't mean that I can rectify my complaints by
 > creating the lacking item. I just don't have that skill. That's what
 > specialisation is for.
As I said before, it is not that fact that there are
complaints. Sometimes those can be helpful and lead to the
developement of new programs. It is the way you complain. It`s a
difference if you say: I have used program X and it really sucks, why
can`t I do this or that with it.
or if you say: Hey, thanks for writing this nice program. I like it,
but could you include this or that feature.

The second kind of response is much more encouraging for a programmer
who spends his/her time to write a program for free.

 > I guess what it comes down to is these points:
 > 1. It's simply unrealistic that you expect EVERY user of Linux to be part
 > of the huge and admirable team that modifies, improves, and develops apps
 > for it. Every "Old Guard" user i know has his or her eyes light up at the
 > idea that Linux may compete for market share with NT. You just can't get
 > there with only programmers. You need the people who just USE the OS.
 > 2. You (All of y'all) convinced me that Linux was better than NT. And i
 > believe you. But don't get mad at me when I may point out something that
 > isn't there. I'm a user, and you are the programmer. I'm not demanding you
 > make it, but don't complain to me about what I can't do. Why don't you
 > impress me with what you CAN do?
 > 
I can agree with that. Although, I don`t think that people write
programs for Linux to impress non-programming users. You have to
remember that Linux is not based on a commercial attitude where
programmers  need to please the user in order to sell their product.
I think this is part of the problem with Linux becoming a mainstream
OS. With increasing commercialisation people forget where it came from 
and treat it just like any other OS on the market.

Ok, I am spending way to much time writing this e-mail, back to work.

Marcus

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Dr. Marcus Metzler
Department of Physics    | $B")(B $B#2#7#4!<#8#5#1#0(B
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Japan			 |
e-mail : mocm@example.com
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