Re: tlug: A message to the "Old Guard" - was "HTML again"

[Dave Gutteridge <dave@example.com>]

Well, i'm definitely having too much fun with this little debate to
actually work. This may be my last post of the day, though, since it's
getting close to six.
Anyways...
Chris got back to me again, with some responses to my points. He did agree
with me that a big part of the problem was in how people present their
complaints/suggestions/opinions about Linux -
In his own words:
>Agreed that most of the problem is in presentation.
And he went on to say that having someone who is not versed in UNIX make a
comment which doesn't ruffle feathers is such a rare event. I totally
agree. I hope (i try, i pray...) that when i come swinging in with a
comment that has most gurus rolling their eyes that i do it with suitable
humility and respect for their patience. But it often happens that people,
given the relative distance and anonymity of e-mail or chat phrase things
in demanding, abrupt, abrasive, or some kind of tone which falls far short
of the common decency that we would convey when in front of each other.
That takes this debate into the realm of human nature, and away from Linux,
so let's end that part of it here, where we have a little common ground.
Both Chris and Scott Perlman, however, took offense to the way in which i
stated that information should be handed to people on a silver platter.
Chris seems to think that the man pages DO in fact have all the information.
His own words:
>Take the man pages: in any given situation, the answers you're looking for
>are probably somewhere in there.
And coupled with Scott's assertion that it is fair and reasonable to expect
that the user have some knowledge of how to find the information makes a
powerful case against my "silver platter" concept, and i concede the point.
Let me rewind a bit and point out that I used the word "Utopian" in my
original post, because what I was trying to convey is that I recognise the
inherint difficulties in making information freely available. It would be
nice if i could just have the information float straight from the ether
into my brain, but that ain't gonna happen, so what i am left with is
debating how easily i can get information in the real world. Let's keep
this related to Linux (for obvious reasons). There are the man pages, and
the information is in them. I readily acknowledge that, as Chris points
out, they have served the UNIX community well for the last twenty or more
years. I do not agree, however, when he says that they are logically laid
out. I'm sure there is connectivity that makes sense to the poeple who
generated them, but that ain't me. And Scott's point that they are also
available in HTML form isn't relevant to me either, because the problem
isn't format, it's writing and structure that leave me baffled. But here I
agree with Chris when he says:
>We differ here, obviously, but we're now straying into philosophical
>territory.  The quest for knowledge, and all that.
Okay, so let's let that issue die as well.
There is one issue left, that i would like to address further, though.
That's the sense of community in the Linux world, and the sense that it's
"golden age" (my term, perhaps a bit melodramatic) is coming to an end, at
least for programmers.
Golden ages have a way of doing that... simply coming to an end. In the art
community, where i'm more versed, this kind of things happens all the time
(though usually over a period of decades, not months and years like the
recent computing world). and what happens all the time is that the "old
guard" feels like something precious has been lost.
Let's bring this home to Linux again. You guys (decide amongst yourselves
who qualifies for this grouping) created something really cool. And now
everyone wants it. I know I want it. But i don't think you can expect me to
necessarily become part of the UNIX community in order to use it any more
than you can expect me to become a mechanic in order to drive a car. You
should be flattered that people are flocking to this OS which has the odds
(in the form of Microsoft) against it. 
As Scott pointed out Linux isn't for everyone. But i think he draws the
line too close to himself in determining who it is suited for. I read
enough to convince me that Apache on a Linux machine made a more stable
server than any kind of NT set up. I wanted to have my own ,com address, on
a machine seperate from my office's usual server, so this is the set up i
chose. Now i have it, and because the machine i usually use is tied up
doing graphics work, i decided to use Linux for my personal things -
e-mail, net surfing and whatever else i could figure out for it to do.
That's why i have it and why i want to know more about it. But what i want
to be is a computer animator, not a programmer. I have neither the time nor
the inclination to get to the level where i could suggest to anyone that i
work with them in order to create the software i would like to see on the
Linux OS. The attitude that Scott gives in his e-mail is that i am not
putting enough effort into mastering Linux or coding in order to deserve
having it. Is that really the case, Scott?
In any case, Chris mentioned that they may already be working on a solution
to these kinds of issues which i suggested, which is to make a seperate
mailing list for people who want to get more technical. I think it's a good
idea, though personally I would rather that people could see more eye to
eye because i really think it's a great thing when those who know pass on
to those who don't without either side demanding or resenting. 
Ah... to live in a perfect world...
		...where information floats through the ether into my brain. 

		Dave

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