Re: tlug: Canna with Emacs 20.2 on RH 5.0?

["Stephen J. Turnbull" <turnbull@example.com>]

>>>>> "mike" == mike fabian <mike.fabian@example.com> writes:

>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen J Turnbull <turnbull@example.com> writes:
>>>>> "Irene" == Irene Langner <irene.langner@example.com> writes:

    Irene> I am running Emacs 20.2 on RH 5.0 and don't like quail very
    Irene> much so far.

    Stephen> Welcome to the club.

    mike> I like quail for the input of German characters on a
    mike> US-keyboard.  But somehow it doesn't seem to work anymore as
    mike> it used to in Emacs 20.

    mike> It works nicely with "GNU Emacs 19.34.1/Mule Version
    mike> 2.3". After

    mike>     M-x quail
    mike>     M-x quail-select-package,    latin-1

Interface change, I guess.  I never used quail that way; I've always
used it through LEIM (== Library of Emacs Input Methods, which is a
lie; as originally implemented it only included Quail).

M-x select-input-method, latin-1-postfix     ;; bound to C-u C-\
M-x toggle-input-method                      ;; bound to C-\

    mike> I can enter German characters with postfix notation, eg o"
    mike> gives o-umlaut. Why doesn't this work anymore in Emacs 20?

RMS or Handa changed it arbitrarily.  Backwards compatibility doesn't
bother them much.

    mike> Does it work in Xemacs 20?

Probably not; the port was done by Morioka-san from Emacs 20.

    mike> There seems to be no information about quail in the
    mike> info-files of Emacs 20.

Quail is "self-documenting."  RAAAAAAAiiiight.  "And if you believe
that, I got this swampland in Nagasaki...."

    Stephen> (I basically disabled it under XEmacs because it got in
    Stephen> the way of LEIM development; native Canna/Wnn works with
    Stephen> LEIM.

    mike> If native Canna/Wnn works with LEIM, then why doesn't it
    mike> work with FSF Emacs 20? Doesn't FSF Emacs also use LEIM?
    mike> What exactly is LEIM?

一、  Canna\Wnn require C level support, and RMS did not see fit to
      include it.
一、  Yes and no.  LEIM is supposed to be a single interface to input
      methods usable under Emacs.  In FSFmacs practice this meant
      Quail only (but now SKK, Morioka-san borrowed my code).  In
      XEmacs it means all methods usable under Emacs including Quail,
      SKK, Canna, Wnn 4 & 6, SJ3, XIM support is planned (this is
      harder than the others), and if you've got a method you like,
      let XEmacs know where to get it and we'll figure out how to
      LEIM-ize it.  Even if (like Wnn6) it's proprietary.
一、  Basically, LEIM is an interface to input methods.  LEIM itself
      provides select-input-method and toggle-input-method methods,
      and each input method provides methods to register with LEIM,
      install and uninstall itself, document itself, and so on.
      LEIM-izing an input method usually simply means providing a
      wrapper around existing Lisp code and adding the registration
      function (trivial) and documentation (often trivial, and you can 
      always make it so ;-).
      XIM is harder because it doesn't yet have a Lisp-level interface.

    Stephen> Seriously, what do you need the upgrade for?

    mike> I would like to upgrade if the upgrade would make it
    mike> possible to use German AND Japanese in e-mails (not
    mike> necessarily both in the same e-mail) AND good MIME
    mike> support.

VM does this under XEmacs (VM is not supoprted under Emacs 20 yet
AFAIK), with the caveat that (1) you can't use non-ASCII in _headers_
of outgoing mail yet, and (2) decoding of MIME headers has some bugs
still.

Gnus is working on this native.

Gnus + SEMI is very effective under XEmacs (そうです).

    mike> What does ``a fortiori'' mean?

"It follows" (more or less).

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